Bad jokes

Since Jon Stewart became a household name two decades ago, there's been a close relationship between comedy and current events. NPR's comedy show Wait Wait... Don't Tell Me! was born during the same era as The Daily Show.

Over the years, the Wait Wait staff have honed their sensibilities for making jokes for their large and devoted following. When the Public Editor's office reaches out to Wait Wait, it's inevitably because a joke offended someone. Recently, a joke about Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy offended so many that the live audience actually groaned.

We learned the Wait Wait writers weren't surprised that the joke fell flat. Keep going to read more about this one-liner, followed by a note from a linguist who listens to NPR and has more advice about pronouncing Kyiv.

Finally, many people wrote in to tell us that NPR was off base when it connected "Stand Your Ground" laws to the trial over George Zimmerman killing Trayvon Martin. We dug deep into why and how the laws, which now exist in most states, are still being discussed in association with Martin's killing 10 years later.

FROM THE INBOX

Here are a few quotes from the Public Editor's inbox that resonated with us. Letters are edited for length and clarity. You can share your questions and concerns with us through the NPR Contact page.

A bad joke

Kate Prendergast wrote on March 8: On the broadcast from Atlanta (airing Saturday night in Los Angeles), Peter Sagal of NPR's Wait Wait... Don't Tell Me! just joked that it's good that Zelenskyy the President of the Ukraine was a comedian because he's used to bombing! ... it's quite shocking that YOU and the other writers and producers over there at NPR's Wait Wait... Don't Tell Me! actually thought this was ok. I am all for not censoring our clowns. ... However, this is something different to me. This is complete insanity and it's beyond crass and inappropriate, it's beyond tone deaf. ...

I winced when I heard this joke, and I wasn't the only one. For those who missed it, here's a recap: In a Wait Wait...Don't Tell Me! show recorded before a live audience at the Fox Theater in Atlanta, Peter Sagal said Russia's invasion of Ukraine has made an international hero of Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, a former actor and comedian. He added that Zelenskyy is "uniting his people and bravely fighting off an invading force."

Then, he said, "Now, there are issues you should know with your head of state being a comedian. On the one hand, he's already used to bombing. But..."

Some members of the live audience at the theater laughed, and others jeered. The Wait Wait panelists called the joke out. Joel Kim Booster said "Oof. Oof," and Hari Kondabolu said that joke hurt him as a comedian and a citizen of the world. Sagal joked that he's going to end up in The Hague for that one.

Sagal didn't respond to an email request for comment. I called Mike Danforth, executive producer of Wait Wait... Don't Tell Me!, to get the story behind the joke. He told me it was scripted.

"It was a joke that was prepared, but it was a joke that we knew was on the edge, for sure. We knew it was dark," Danforth said. "But I will tell you, it's the kind of joke that only works with a live audience, and the reason why is because, if you heard it, the audience laughed and booed. That's how that works best, is when Peter can make an edgy or dark joke, you know, gallows humor — and the audience can chastise him for it. He's reprimanded immediately."

Danforth said Sagal's subsequent comment about going to The Hague was improvised. "He knew it was a bad joke. He knew he was in trouble," he said.

Humor is subjective, Danforth told us. "I would never tell someone they're wrong to not like a joke," he said. "All I can say is 'I'm sorry that you didn't enjoy the show, because obviously we're creating a show for you to enjoy.' We don't want to make people feel bad."

According to Danforth, Sagal's job as host is to "create a fun sandbox for the panelists to play around in." Since Wait Wait is a show that features many comics, Danforth said the Ukrainian leader was someone they could have fun with because he was formerly a comic actor. After that joke, the conversation quickly turned to Zelenskyy becoming an international sex symbol.

"In that case, we weren't at all talking about the very tragic things happening in Ukraine," Danforth said.

He added that the show recently played a quick-fire game that featured other stories out of Ukraine, like a woman who reportedly shot down a Russian drone with a jar.

"There's ways to celebrate human ingenuity in the face of tragedy, and human triumphs in the face of horrible attacks," Danforth said. "Generally speaking, we don't joke about suffering. We'll make jokes about funny accidents, but if someone was seriously injured in something, we won't joke about it."

He wants to make sure that on the show, "the object of the joke is somebody in power," he said.

In this case, however, although Zelenskyy is powerful, the people of Ukraine who are enduring the bombings are not.

Giving the Wait Wait audience permission to cringe is part of the show. The groans were predictable, which suggests the joke was obviously more cringeworthy than clever. — Amaris Castillo

Say it right

Karine Megerdoomian wrote on Feb. 28: As a linguist, I support pronouncing the names of places according to how locals would pronounce it. However, in an attempt to fight "the Russification" of Ukrainian language" (as it has been described in some sources), the U.S. newscasters have promoted "the Anglification" of it. If the attempt is to pronounce the city of Kiev/Kyiv as it is pronounced in Ukrainian, then the way most newscasters are currently pronouncing it as "Keev"/"Kiv" should be stopped immediately, as it sounds nothing like the Ukrainian pronunciation, which can be verified by listening to YouTube videos by native Ukrainians pronouncing the word. The native pronunciation of Київ (romanized as Kyiv according to the official standard romanization put forth by the Ukrainian government) includes two very distinct syllables. So if we are indeed attempting to be as close as possible to the Ukrainian pronunciation, we should all be pronouncing it ... as TWO syllables ... and certainly not as the Anglified one-syllable word "Keev". ...

Thank you for your comment, and your point is well-taken. In a February newsletter , we wrote about pronunciation, saying, "It's a sign of respect when you learn to pronounce someone's name the way they pronounce it themselves. The same is true for the capital city of Ukraine." As you outline, if U.S. journalists have altered how they say (and spell) Kyiv to adhere to the Ukrainian way, then it's important for them to fully put that in practice and pronounce it closer to the Ukrainian way. — Kayla Randall

What do 'Stand Your Ground' laws have to do with it?

Audience members questioned a recent Morning Edition story about the impact of "Stand Your Ground" laws. That piece looked at new research linking the Florida law and similar state laws to hundreds of homicides nationally, and asserted that the legislation was central to George Zimmerman's trial for killing Trayvon Martin.

Edward Leaver wrote on March 1: Rachel Martin erred severely with the following opening: "Tomorrow marks 10 years since 17-year-old Trayvon Martin was shot and killed. The case surrounding his death centered around the controversial 'Stand Your Ground law.' "

As a lawyer, I know full well (as do many other news outlets) this case had nothing to do with Florida's 'Stand Your Ground' law. Zimmerman's defense argued it was Self Defense, NOT 'Stand Your Ground.' ...

James May wrote on March 1: The story starts out with the perpetual lie that Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law was used as a successful defense by George Zimmerman in the Trayvon Martin case. The law was not used as a defense and the story needs to be corrected.

This 2-minute radio spot and the accompanying digital introduction covers three nuanced points: the case surrounding Martin's killing, the recent history of "Stand Your Ground" laws, and a research study that explores the connection between those laws and the homicide rate.

We talked with National Desk Supervising Editor Denice Rios about how she and National Desk Correspondent Cheryl Corley decided to use the trial over Martin's killing as a starting point for the story about "Stand Your Ground" laws.

"During George Zimmerman's trial, his attorneys did not specifically use the 'Stand Your Ground' law to defend him and that may be the concern of the listeners who heard the story," Rios said in an email on behalf of Corley and herself. "It was not an absent factor though — the judge mentioned the law during jury instructions — telling the jury, in part, to determine its verdict based on the 'Stand Your Ground' law."

The question about the impact of Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law on Zimmerman's exoneration arose as the case gained national attention.

When we asked independent experts outside of journalism, we discovered that the legal community itself disagrees on whether Zimmerman's case was rooted in "Stand Your Ground" laws.

Nick Dorsten, a criminal defense and personal injury lawyer in Florida, said Zimmerman's lawyer presented a simple self-defense argument and agreed with some of the critics that it was incorrect to link it to the "Stand Your Ground" law, which is a subset of self-defense laws that Zimmerman's lawyer did not invoke during the trial.

This radio story does not specifically claim that Zimmerman or his lawyer relied on "Stand Your Ground." However, a sentence that was added to the web display of the story erroneously states, "The man who shot [Martin] used Florida's 'Stand Your Ground' law as a successful defense." That sentence is wrong and should be corrected.

But it's not wrong to say that "Stand Your Ground" laws played a role in Zimmerman's adjudication. Kenneth B. Nunn, a University of Florida law professor with expertise in the "Stand Your Ground" law, told us the two are correctly linked for two reasons — the instructions to the jury and the broader legal framework the defense used.

" 'Stand Your Ground' is not a stand alone defense," Nunn wrote in an email. "It is simply an interpretation of self-defense which, as Professor Simon [cited in NPR's story] says, 'remove[s] any duty to retreat first if a person feels threatened.' You still have to prove that self defense is otherwise warranted. If ['Stand Your Ground'] was not relied on in the Zimmerman case, then he would have had to show that he could not retreat before using deadly force against Trayvon Martin."

Rios said the "Stand Your Ground" law was a huge factor in the case from the very beginning. "After George Zimmerman shot Martin in 2012, the law (which Florida passed in 2005) became, as NPR reported, the subject of national debate," she wrote. She also pointed to coverage in 2021 from NPR's Florida-based reporter Greg Allen about attempts to repeal Florida's "Stand Your Ground" laws. At rallies and protests opposing the law, demonstrators often cited Martin's killing. That includes his mother, Sybrina Fulton, who has said the law should be reviewed and revised.

Dorsten said at the time of Zimmerman's trial he thought journalists were erroneously linking Martin's killing and "Stand Your Ground" when it wasn't part of the defense, and that's why people still connect the two nearly nine years after the trial concluded.

"And to this day with Trayvon Martin, whenever you think of [the case] a couple images come to mind: hoodie, Skittles, 'Stand Your Ground.' ... And right or wrong, it just becomes cemented in public knowledge," Dorsten said.

He said misconceptions in the Morning Edition story may have been avoided if the reporter had acknowledged that Zimmerman's legal defense relied on the broader self-defense laws, and the jury instructions from the judge also cited the "Stand Your Ground" law.

"Perhaps we could have included a line about the defense strategy and the judge's instructions to make clear what happened during the trial itself, but 'Stand Your Ground' was definitely in the spotlight (and at the center) of the Trayvon Martin case. To say it was not would be inaccurate," Rios said.

In researching these listener comments, we saw additional criticism that the Morning Edition story allows the researcher to imply that "Stand Your Ground" laws are the cause of an increase in homicides nationally, when the study said it found a correlation in some states, but no rise in homicides in other states that enacted similar laws.

Ultimately, this tight 2-minute story had too much ground to cover to fairly dig into the study. It needed more time to deliver necessary context. — Emily Barske

SPOTLIGHT ON

The Public Editor spends a lot of time examining moments where NPR fell short. Yet we also learn a lot about NPR by looking at work that we find to be compelling and excellent journalism. Here we share a line or two about the pieces where NPR shines.

Adding daily creativity

In journalism and other communications fields, we use the phrase "writer's block" when we're struggling to create. I'm certain many of us have felt stalled at times when we needed creativity for our work. A recent Life Kit piece looked at what we can do about this. Talking with Julia Cameron about her new book Seeking Wisdom: A Spiritual Path to Creative Connection, host Rachel Martin delved into what each of us can do daily to spur creativity. I personally loved the idea of an "artist date," what Cameron describes as "once-a-week, solo adventure that you take just for fun." It reframes taking time for yourself as a way to open the door for delight. — Emily Barske

The Office of the Public Editor is a team. Editor Kayla Randall and reporters Amaris Castillo and Emily Barske make this newsletter possible. Illustrations are by Carlos Carmonamedina. We are still reading all of your messages on Facebook, Twitter and from our inbox. As always, keep them coming.

Kelly McBrideNPR Public EditorChair, Craig Newmark Center for Ethics & Leadership at the Poynter Institute [Copyright 2022 NPR]