The great 'Die Hard' debate: Yes, it's a Christmas movie (or not?)

When the holiday season arrives, with the tree decorated, and the stockings hung, I will gather my loved ones close for an annual Christmas tradition — watching my favorite Christmas movie "Die Hard."

That's not terribly unique, however. "Die Hard" is considered a Christmas movie by many; something to watch against the backdrop of jingle bells and holly jolly festivities. Still, there are those who shudder at the thought of "Die Hard" being included in Christmas-movie canon. My KUOW colleague Bill Radke, host of Week in Review, is one of them.

"A Christmas movie is a movie that you can't describe without saying the word 'Christmas'." he said. "'Die Hard' does not fit that bill.”

RELATED: What makes a Christmas movie?

"Die Hard" tells the story of John McClane, a New York police officer who travels to LA to mend his relationship with his estranged wife, Holly. She moved to LA, with the kids, for her career. John meets Holly at Nakatomi Plaza during her company Christmas party. While he is cleaning up in an office bathroom, terrorists take over the party. He hides away in just his pants and shirt. John has to stop them, barefoot, before it's too late. The result is explosive.

Over the years, fans have picked up on all of the film's Christmas aspects (setting, music, dialogue, motifs, allusions, etc.). It even snows at the end (not really, since it's LA, but all the falling office paper is meant to symbolize snow). Fans have leaned into it, much to the chagrin of Christmas purists.

"It still hits all of the Hallmark Christmas-movie tropes," Helen Roundhill said.

Roundhill plays the character of Holly in "A Very Die Hard Christmas," a musical parody performed each holiday season in Seattle.

"You have an estranged family being brought back together by the power of Christmas … one of them is this high-earning, high-achieving person who, through the magic of terrorism, realizes that actually, maybe a slower life pace is important. And her name is Holly, for heaven's sake! There's snow at the end. Like to me, it hits all of those things that you expect from the overly saccharin sweet movie, but in a fun way, with machine guns.”

In the case of "Die Hard," Radke argues that the Christmas setting is happenstance, and that it could have been set at Halloween, a bar mitzvah, a comic con, or no special event at all.

“Thing is, Christmas attracts a lot of hangers on," Radke explains. "Everybody wants to attach themselves to Christmas. Starbucks does. Amazon does. Songwriters, record labels, film studios …. it makes Christmas blur out … [it’s] Christmas-adjacent schlock. I love it. I love schlock. I like an eggnog in my coffee. It's fine, but it doesn't get to the core. I preserve a core Christmas in my own mind.”

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The problem with this debate is that Christmas can be a moving target. For religious audiences, unless a film has a baby in a manger, it's not a Christmas movie. For others, it's strictly about the tree, Santa, and Mariah Carey.

I would argue, however, that the nucleus of Christmas goes far beyond tinsel, and it is present in "Die Hard."

"Die Hard" is a Christmas movie

Various cultures across the globe often choose a time (generally when it's dark and cold) to embrace positive virtues over our worse characteristics. Families gather, while humility, generosity, kindness, compassion, and forgiveness are highlighted. Greed, pride, gluttony, and all our toxic traits are frowned upon. This is the core of Christmas, and "Die Hard."

That's why Christmas is a very specific holiday to use in "Die Hard." John McClane must overcome his pride and admit he was wrong. He should have supported his wife. He learns humility. Hubris is mocked throughout. Despite obstacles and differences, strangers become friends. Family is the ultimate prize. Hans Gruber, the villain, is a cookie-cutter Grinch, representing greed, lack of empathy, disregard for humanity — all the bad characteristics that we contrast good virtues against.

Once you get past the superficial setting, this is what the movie wraps up in a bow. Without Christmas as the backdrop, the punch doesn't land. This is why you'll find plenty of folks arguing for "Die Hard's" Christmas movie status, and not so much "Lethal Weapon." That movie came out within a year of "Die Hard," is also set at Christmas in LA, and even shares some of the same actors.

You'll also often hear a couple other arguments around this debate. Just so we're covered:

"Die Hard" was released in July, not during Christmastime. A lot of cherished Christmas movies were never released around the holiday. "Holiday Inn" hit screens in August 1942, and its remake "White Christmas" was an October movie in 1954. "Miracle on 34th Street" was released in June 1947. Despite having a very limited release at the end of December 1946 (so it could qualify for the Academy Awards that year), nobody saw "It's a Wonderful Life" until January 1947, a month after Christmas.

"Die Hard" was never meant to be a holiday movie. So what? There are a lot of traditions that get folded into holidays that came from somewhere else. Nobody would deny that "Jingle Bells" ("One Horse Open Sleigh") is a Christmas song, yet this tune was never originally written for Christmas. It was first written for Thanksgiving in the mid-1800s, then became more of a drinking song long before Christmas took it on. Today, try not to think about Christmas when you hear the sound of sleigh bells.

"A Very Die Hard Christmas" (and why this debate is a real Christmas tradition)

Whether or not "Die Hard" is a Christmas movie, perhaps what has really become a holiday tradition is this very debate. It's an argument that the folks who produce "A Very Die Hard Christmas" greatly appreciate.

“I love the debate, because the debate keeps me fed," Director/Producer Mark Siano said. "I think the people have spoken. The amount of people that watch 'Die Hard' every year, and the amount of people that come to our show every year, there's no denying that 'Die Hard' is now a huge part of people's Christmas traditions. Was it originally intended to be a Christmas movie? Maybe not? Maybe? ... and if somebody says they don't feel like 'Die Hard' is a Christmas movie, then thank you for keeping the debate going. I appreciate your patronage."

RELATED: What makes a classic holiday film?

Every since 2018, Seattle Public Theater has performed "A Very Die Hard Christmas" eight times a week over the holiday season at the Bathhouse Theater in Green Lake. It sells out, fast. Siano says that tickets are often gone by the end of September.

"It's a great show, if I can pat myself on the back," he said. "It's now a tradition for so many families, they get back together in groups of friends ... and see 'Die Hard Christmas' together. Entire corporations have their parties there. It's a really popular show."

"A Very Die Hard Christmas" grew out of a sketch comedy group, The Habit. As such, this rendition of the story is more of a parody, as well as a musical that leans heavily into the 1980s aesthetic.

Siano describes "Die Hard" as part of an "alternate Christmas," for personalities that don't vibe with the traditional, sugary, cheesy holiday. Plus, it's just fun to talk about.

"It's fun to get riled up about something that doesn't mean a damn thing," he said. "...Yeah, let's debate an '80s action flick, and whether or not it's Christmas. That's just a fun thing to do with your parents. That's not gonna turn into like, ‘Oh, I hate Trump.’ It's a good distraction, for sure."

“And it's just a great film, too. It's a great action flick, and it definitely deserves to be re-watched. It just so happened that Christmas was there for 'Die Hard,' and 'Die Hard' was there for Christmas."